Author Topic: about breaking in my Antelope Zodiac dac  (Read 32496 times)

Offline Nick B

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about breaking in my Antelope Zodiac dac
« on: November 04, 2015, 08:20:12 PM »
It's been ages since I broke in any cables or equipment. The last piece was the McCormack DNA 1.0 amp that Steve McCormack upgraded to gold level. He put some hours on it. I got it home and out of the box it sounded pretty good, then good, then great. I just played it, took some notes and after 100 hours I was very happy.

This Antelope dac was nib. The first 24 hours were really painful to the ears. Very strident...sibilance on vocals...trumpets and strings...harsh cymbals etc. After 24 hours I installed the Black Sand Silver Reference pc on the dac and found my trusty old JPS IC that works nice as a digital cable. The pc added weight and the combo smoothed things out a bit. There is less harshness after 35 hours and playing at night after 900 pm
makes quite a difference. Reminds me of the dirty power when I was living in Los Angeles. I'm not using nor have ever used a power conditioner. I'll keep putting the hours on, but I'm concerned
that this dac is so revealing that it's especially sensitive to outside grunge of all sorts. I have no idea if the Straley SCs and Grover Huffman ICs I'm using are shielded or not.

On the plus side, the dac is very revealing, has wonderful texture and body and is very accurate as to the original recording. It's the best I've had in the house. As a final point, I have the SPTech Timepiece 2 s that are very revealing as well
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Offline richidoo

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Re: about breaking in my Antelope Zodiac dac
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2015, 09:19:09 PM »
That's a lot of intense audiophile type gear! You must like it straight no chaser!

The DAC is extremely revealling, and intense. It is the alpha male of DACs. Very stimulating. But it is not unrefined, you shouldn't hear any grunge if it's working right, and broken in. Talk with your dealer or mfg about what to expect. Maybe Shane will chime in, he used to sell them and knows the deal.

Hookup the DAC to an unused input on preamp or whatever and just let it play loud compressed pop music like iheartradio at full volume for a week 24/7. 3 weeks is 500 hours. The load (input) doesn't have to be powered. I can email the Frybaby break-in track on mp3 if you want it. They make Volticus power supply that would eliminate worries about power quality, but I doubt you need that.

If it was so harsh when new, I'm sure there's more breakin to go, it's still a baby.

Offline _Scotty_

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Re: about breaking in my Antelope Zodiac dac
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2015, 09:57:28 PM »
You had better figure on about 500 hrs. of break-in. It should be a better at 250hrs. than it is right now. Straley SCs are not shielded nor are the ICs.
It sounds like you are using the SPDIF input. An outboard USB to SPDIF converter will be sensitive to noise on the AC line and the power cord used as will the DAC. Unless the JPS IC meets the SPDIF 75ohm standard there may be a problem with how the Dac sounds, of course there may be problems even if it does meet the spec.
 Lots of variables in play. Which Antelope Dac is it?
Be sure to keep us updated on the break-in process.
Scotty
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 09:59:42 PM by _Scotty_ »

Offline rollo

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Re: about breaking in my Antelope Zodiac dac
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2015, 06:45:11 AM »
   Yup agree 500 hours. Disagree on method. The dielectric needs to settle. try 12 hours on 12 hours off. That is the most affective method I have tried over the years.  ENJOY.


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Offline hometheaterdoc

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Re: about breaking in my Antelope Zodiac dac
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2015, 08:49:10 AM »
the antelope stuff, especially the gold and voltikus power supply (which is what Nick has) needs a lot of time to fully break in....  definitely 500 hours+ or hard running... none of the antelope stuff I had on demo sounded good out of the box... you could tell it needed a lot of break in... 100 hours was a start, but needed more... 

they were sensitive to power feeding them... but not necessarily anymore than other products..  I think I've had darn near every type and brand of power conditioning product over the years... the one product that has universally worked and (as long as you didn't overload it) didn't kill dynamics and life is the power re-generator style.... I run each of my systems on a PS Audio P10... I've got very wild swings in AC voltage at my place and a lot of noise on the lines... the P10 cleans it and I don't notice any difference in sound between daytime listening and late at night with it in the chain...

the antelope stuff is intense sounding (like that description Rich! :) haha).... not a romantic sound at all... very direct and clean and detailed.... the voltikus or some form of linear power supply was very helpful in fleshing out the bottom end... the switcher supply didn't have the depth or impact as the linear power supply did... it helped round things a touch.... was too lean with the switching supply...

the combination of equipment is likely contributing to a 2+2 = 6 scenario... those speakers are not known for being very forgiving or laid back or warm sounding... your amp is likely pretty clean sounding as well given the base products I've listened to in the past (I've not heard the amp in question modded like you have it right now... but I doubt the modding made it warm and rounded sounding)....  adding the very revealing DAC is likely just one for light shining and tipping the balance a bit beyond what you may want to hear...  based on what you've got, you'll definitely hear the changes as the DAC breaks in, though...

the antelope stuff is a very nice product line.... I've found others I prefer in the interim time since I started carrying the product line... but even today, it still holds up very well...
Shane Sangster
Used to be Night & Day Audio.......

Offline jimbones

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Re: about breaking in my Antelope Zodiac dac
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2015, 10:17:44 AM »
Ive heard good things about the Antelope dac. Was on my list but out of reach price wise. It must have teflon caps  :lol:
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Offline Werd

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Re: about breaking in my Antelope Zodiac dac
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2015, 01:50:24 PM »
I want your dac. What is the voltage and current on the aftermarket power supplies?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 01:53:37 PM by Werd »
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Offline Nick B

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Re: about breaking in my Antelope Zodiac dac
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2015, 06:03:07 PM »
Yes, as Shane said, it's a Gold with the Voltikus power supply. So I have intense speakers, dac and not quite as intense an amp (IMO)  Hmmm...where is this headed  ha ha. I know the SP Techs can be ruthless and as I recall Ken aka Bigfish had these some years ago and sold them.

I am a detail freak, but have had years of lean, kinda mean sound and I sure don't want to go down that route anymore. I decided within the last year or so that I do like the detail, but it all needs to be a bit on the warm side. I think I can get there with this setup, but it may hinge on the cables. The only cables I've auditioned within the last year and a half were DaveC's Zen Audio stuff and that was using the Buffalo 32 dac that Rich sold me. Very nice sound. The cables were probably the D3s.

BTW Werd, I got the dac from a dealer for $2,400
Rich, can you email me the Frybaby? I'm assuming I just need to drag and drop it into my music folder, correct?
Scotty..I am using the spdif out. The JPS uses a WBT locking rca which I think is around 75 ohms, but that's just a guess. It has worked well before, but I never have used it on a dac like the Gold.
Charles, I'm not running it 24/7  It does get 10-12 hours a day.     
Jim, I stumbled onto this dac and have been thinking about it for a couple of years. As I had the money in my audio slush fund, I felt the $2,400 was a good price.

Well, after tonight, I'll have 50 hours on it. Am using a Diana Krall CD as a reference point and playing tons of other stuff just for fun
Nick
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Offline Nick B

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Re: about breaking in my Antelope Zodiac dac
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2015, 06:04:51 PM »
the antelope stuff, especially the gold and voltikus power supply (which is what Nick has) needs a lot of time to fully break in....  definitely 500 hours+ or hard running... none of the antelope stuff I had on demo sounded good out of the box... you could tell it needed a lot of break in... 100 hours was a start, but needed more... 

they were sensitive to power feeding them... but not necessarily anymore than other products..  I think I've had darn near every type and brand of power conditioning product over the years... the one product that has universally worked and (as long as you didn't overload it) didn't kill dynamics and life is the power re-generator style.... I run each of my systems on a PS Audio P10... I've got very wild swings in AC voltage at my place and a lot of noise on the lines... the P10 cleans it and I don't notice any difference in sound between daytime listening and late at night with it in the chain...

the antelope stuff is intense sounding (like that description Rich! :) haha).... not a romantic sound at all... very direct and clean and detailed.... the voltikus or some form of linear power supply was very helpful in fleshing out the bottom end... the switcher supply didn't have the depth or impact as the linear power supply did... it helped round things a touch.... was too lean with the switching supply...

the combination of equipment is likely contributing to a 2+2 = 6 scenario... those speakers are not known for being very forgiving or laid back or warm sounding... your amp is likely pretty clean sounding as well given the base products I've listened to in the past (I've not heard the amp in question modded like you have it right now... but I doubt the modding made it warm and rounded sounding)....  adding the very revealing DAC is likely just one for light shining and tipping the balance a bit beyond what you may want to hear...  based on what you've got, you'll definitely hear the changes as the DAC breaks in, though...

the antelope stuff is a very nice product line.... I've found others I prefer in the interim time since I started carrying the product line... but even today, it still holds up very well...

Shane,
Forgot to ask. What are you preferring in dacs nowadays?
Nick
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Audio Envy p cords
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Offline richidoo

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Re: about breaking in my Antelope Zodiac dac
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2015, 09:52:24 AM »
Rich, can you email me the Frybaby? I'm assuming I just need to drag and drop it into my music folder, correct?

Sent. Scan your folder so the player knows it's there. :)

DAC volume up full
Play frybaby on repeat
Connect DAC output to another component's input, lower input impedance is faster. 10kOhms or lower is good. 600 ohms is ideal because zodiac is designed for high end pro audio. But it will still work with any load.
Turn off everything but the DAC. You don't want to hear it. DAC still sees the load even if the load is off.

« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 03:13:04 PM by richidoo »

Offline jimbones

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Re: about breaking in my Antelope Zodiac dac
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2015, 01:40:32 PM »
Nick.
Good price!  Good luck
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Offline Nick B

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Re: about breaking in my Antelope Zodiac dac
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2015, 01:21:21 AM »
65 hours so far. Serious listening from 10pm to 130am. Nice, clean AC and very nice sound. On the right song, this dac can produce a huge soundstage. I am very surprised that the Straley SCs and Grover Huffman ICs can do that. The resolution continues to amaze me. Harshness is much reduced. Was listening to lots of different music and Enya and Nana Mouskouri who is my gold standard for a female voice.

What is interesting is the rapid improvement in SQ. I put in the different cables at about 30 hours. The Black Sound power cord and JPS IC which I use as the digital out have been sitting in a drawer for a year or two. Did they need a little break in as I had to twist them a bit to get them in place? I have no idea. The JPS has the flexible metal tube...kinda looks like a smaller version of a flexible gas stove tube. I've had it since the mid 90s before JPS became a big name.

Thanks for the Frybaby Rich. I have no other gear hooked up right now. Can I just plug the dac out cable into my unused phono stage? Does the phono need to be plugged in? In all these years, I've always broken stuff in live. Sometimes at low volume and sometimes high. As to the amount of volume, isn't it a very tiny signal, and if so, why would increasing the volume have a big affect. If you could elaborate, I'd appreciate it
Nick

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Offline richidoo

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Re: about breaking in my Antelope Zodiac dac
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2015, 07:24:24 AM »
Live is fine. Do what you're used to.

I suggested different load only to speed up the process by increasing the amount of current drawn from the DAC. But that is a presumption on my part, that working the DAC harder speeds break in. That's just how I do it.

I skimmed the Zodiac manual - Zodiac XLR outputs have professional voltage level so they can probably handle a 600 ohm load, but the RCA outputs are consumer voltage level so the lowest input impedance you should connect the DAC to is 5kOhms, imo. Every commercial consumer product will have input impedance of >10k. The only inputs lower than that I've ever heard of were some older Oddysey amps which were 7kOhm input. New Oddysey amps are higher now iirc.

Lower load impedance will draw more current from the Zodiac output stage amplifier, which, along with signal conductors and caps after the amp stage, are the actual parts you are trying to break in. The digital circuits ahead of the output stage will also break in, but that is a fixed rate that you cannot change with load variation. Some people think any music signal will achieve break-in, while others think higher current speeds it up, while others think break-in is a delusion. ymmv

As for the volume level, turning up the Zodiac volume control also causes more current output from the DAC, as long as it doesn't cause the DAC or the input to clip. I doubt that the DAC would clip, but it is possible to clip a consumer input stage with professional level voltage. So it's a good idea to listen to the break in setup for a moment to make sure it's not clipping before letting it simmer for hours. If your DAC is connected directly to the amp, it would be too loud to listen with the Zodiac turned all the way up, so nevermind about maxing the volume control. Just set it to loud but not clipping level with a modern pop music track, then switch to frybaby and shut off the amp. Remember 2/3 of opinions say volume level doesn't matter, so feel free to ignore this, or better yet follow your intuition.

The phono preamp inputs will most likely have 47kOhms (for MM) and 100 Ohm (for MC) input impedance, as these are the most standard settings for carts. 100 Ohms is too low for the DAC. 47k is safe, but not much different from the DNA in terms of current draw in the DAC. Your DNA 1.0 amp's input impedance is 100kOhms. Long ago 47k was the industry standard for RCA input (they used to call RCA a "phono plug") but now many RCA inputs use the 10k standard. 47k and 100k are both on the high side, which is good for normal use because it makes easy work for wimpy sources like old fashioned (good sounding) simple circuit tube preamps, but not hard enough for strong workout needed for fast break in, imo.

As you say, it already sounds good enough to listen, so speeding it up doesn't matter anymore. Just listen and enjoy. Be aware that SQ might dip down again as break in continues. Just ignore it. Listen to the music, ignore the sound.  :thumb:

Offline Nick B

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Re: about breaking in my Antelope Zodiac dac
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2015, 10:57:03 AM »
Thanks, Rich  :thumb:
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Offline Werd

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Re: about breaking in my Antelope Zodiac dac
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2015, 07:20:00 AM »
If you really want I can break it in for you.  :thumb:
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