Author Topic: You know what grinds my gears?  (Read 59128 times)

Offline jimbones

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You know what grinds my gears?
« on: October 06, 2015, 07:50:03 AM »
Stereophile declaring "winners" at the RMAF such in the case of a $4100 power cord. Well duh, it better sound good for that much (I know there's no guarantee that it sounds good). Tell me something really interesting like giant killers or new companies and products that think outside the box and offer great products at "modest" prices.

It's almost a given that the reviewers walk around these shows and declare winners by price rather than performance. I've been to shows where some of the priciest equipment sounded like crap.  :x

Rant over. :thumb:
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Offline topround

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Re: You know what grinds my gears?
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2015, 12:44:19 PM »
i have to agree, the audio market is based on a new business model that has alot to do with appealing to the well heeled among us. To give in to the insecurities amongst people and try to sell products at ridiculous prices. They get your money, you get bragging rights to your audiophile friends. they have to be audiophiles because ordinary people would think them nuts or stupid. I think PT Barnum influenced the new business model!

not sour grapes here....just that it doesn't cost anywhere, and I mean anywhere near $4100 to make a power cord, why we pay that price I don't know, but because we do, the price just keeps going up,until we stop.
So in reality we are to blame for the crazy prices, and while 4100 may seem crazy high for a power cord, there are some out there that cost lots more!
Also if a $200 power cord was better than the 4100 dollar cord, that would be bad for business :duh so yes the more expensive the better it has to be..................so there
System consists of an amp a preamp, 2 speakers a turntable and a phono preamp, Also some cables and power cords and a really cheap cd player.

Offline Packfill

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Re: You know what grinds my gears?
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2015, 03:06:20 PM »
I am on a similar, but not quite the same, page as you gentlemen.
 
1.  Regardless of price, how do you evaluate a power cord (or any piece in the audio chain, save perhaps speakers) unless you are very familiar with every other item in the chain or get to hear the system with a different power cord?

2.  Many of the people who buy uber expensive audio are not doing it out of insecurity but out of indifference.  If you have the money, its not that big a deal, much like buying expensive furniture or tailored suits.  Its supposed to be the best, so you plunk down the credit card and move on.

If anyone is to blame, I believe it is the Press.  Rather than naming names and calling out the BS, they prefer to be industry cheerleaders.  Their short sighted preference for being "positive" is like refusing to weed your garden.  Eventually all the plants, including, the good ones, shrivel for lack of nourishment.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 03:10:12 PM by Packfill »

Offline jimbones

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Re: You know what grinds my gears?
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2015, 06:16:37 PM »
I used the cable as an example. Same goes for all other equipment. Like giving awards to 150K speaker systems.Yea we know it's supposed to be good. But I really like seeking out the gems that are in the sweet spot of $$$. 
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Offline Emil

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Re: You know what grinds my gears?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2015, 05:14:39 AM »

I believe the audio biz sees the writing on the wall....it's dying along with the last generation that actually gave a crap about sound quality so they are trying to make as much money as possible before they have to shut the doors.
Just read the reports from any audio show. "Last Hoorah Audio" has a new speaker! Transparency, soundstage, blah, blah blah. Ok, now I'm interested! Price? Just 25K :shock:
I think I'm doing pretty good financially at this point in my life and if I really wanted to spend 25K on a speaker I could but would I? Not a chance and I don't think anyone in the audiophile community that I know would either.
It's over for me. I'm off this bandwagon. It was fun some 20 years ago waiting eagerly for the next Stereophile or Absolute Sound to arrive. Not anymore.
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Offline topround

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Re: You know what grinds my gears?
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2015, 05:45:50 AM »
I agree with Emil completely. Value has disappeared and been replaced with fleecing of your money. Prices have gotten so out of control that the fun is gone from the hobby. If you go out to dinner with your wife and spend $200 bucks on a great meal...then fine, but if the bill was $2000 you know you are being robbed.

I too am off this bandwagon, it takes some time and distance from the hobby to see the insanity of it all. Trust me I was into it up to my neck, but in hindsight see it all as a big waste of time and money, it was fun, and I met some great people, but it was totally unproductive.

Music is a big part of my life, always has been, but the idea of sitting in a chair for hours listening to music seems like a waste these days, too much to do, and so much I want to do. Maybe I am getting old?

my audio hobby has been replaced by hiking and yoga. spending the time away made me realize how much more I want to do with my life.

So the audio business may wither and die, but music is always....whether played on a 100k$ rig or your car radio, I am glad the audionervosa has left me...........
System consists of an amp a preamp, 2 speakers a turntable and a phono preamp, Also some cables and power cords and a really cheap cd player.

Offline machinehead

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Re: You know what grinds my gears?
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2015, 07:07:19 AM »
Its regoddamndiculous ;)
Im reading good things about Elac. I believe its the same designer who did the Pioneer bookshelf and did those fancy German speakers.. you know the ones lol
Its cool ndude.

Offline jimbones

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Re: You know what grinds my gears?
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2015, 08:44:03 AM »
I returned to the hobby after a 12 year hiatus and came back with my eyes wide open. I feel i have been able to put together a very nice sounding system for a modest amount of money. I buy used and DIY where I can and am quite happy with my system. There are some really good sounding value priced equipment out there that I believe deserves more headlines.
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Offline tmazz

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Re: You know what grinds my gears?
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2015, 11:06:59 AM »

If anyone is to blame, I believe it is the Press.  Rather than naming names and calling out the BS, they prefer to be industry cheerleaders.  Their short sighted preference for being "positive" is like refusing to weed your garden.  Eventually all the plants, including, the good ones, shrivel for lack of nourishment.

This is also in a big part the result of changes in the publishing industry in general. TAS and Stereophlie we founded by people who had a deep love and respect for the hobby and published the magazines more as a calling than for the purpose of making a profit. Both of them went through periods of hard times that probably would have cause most businessmen to throw in the towel and call it quits but the persevered because of their feeling of purpose. Unfortunately, as it always does, time marched on and eventually the editorial staffs of both magazines got up in age and sold the publications to corporate entities that look at them as nothing more than cash machine and evaluate them not on the basis of what the contribute to the hobby, but rather how much profit they return to their owners as compared to the investment they made to buy them.  So journalistic integrity and concern got the hobby is out the window as they focus solely on maximizing profits.  Of course they are not going to endorse the maker of a $200 power cord over a $41000 power cord because guess which one of them has more money to buy advertising space?

The same thing has occurred in the newspaper business. Newspapers used to be run by “newspaper men” who considered reporting the news a noble cause. Now they are owned by conglomerates who wouldn’t care less if the converted the whole operation to a bunch of hot dog carts, so long as the carts returned and equal or greater profit.  I have a friend who is an editor at a major metropolitan newspaper that was sold a by the original owners a few years ago and he was telling me recently that I would believe the number of times in the past year that he was forced to cancel a story because it would upset someone who bought a lot of ad space from them.  Sad, but it is increasingly the way of the world. 

(And in IMO, it all started when corporate executives began to have large parts of their compensation paid out in stock instead of cash, which caused more and more decisions to be made on the basis of what they would do to the stock price instead of how they would affect the company or its customers. But that is a discussion for another time, and probably a different forum.)

Remember, it's all about the music........

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Offline BobM

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« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2015, 12:03:39 PM »
Laugh and the world laughs with you. Cry and you'll have to blow your nose.

Offline James Edward

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Re: You know what grinds my gears?
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2015, 02:29:54 PM »
Tom's post in a single sentence (in my opinion):

“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.”


― Eric Hoffer, The Temper of Our Time
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Re: You know what grinds my gears?
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2015, 07:42:59 AM »
HA! I have to agree completely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have gotten old and cheap, but very very much wiser.
Much happier now.
"Stereopile" is irrelevant and so are many of the other rags and
Review sites.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2015, 07:46:28 AM by DRN »

Offline tmazz

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Re: You know what grinds my gears?
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2015, 10:34:30 AM »
HA! I have to agree completely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have gotten old and cheap, but very very much wiser.
Much happier now.
"Stereopile" is irrelevant and so are many of the other rags and
Review sites.


I am beginning to find that the best places now to get good info and reviews is some of the online audio mags. They are not big businesses yet and as such are largely staffed by hardcore audiophiles who are doing it not for the money , but rather out of love for the hobby, just like Stereophile and TAS did in the old days. Maybe not as polished and professional from a journalistic point of view, but a good source of honest unbiased opinions.
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
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Offline rollo

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Re: You know what grinds my gears?
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2015, 01:35:26 PM »
  There are loots of inexpensive components worth their  weight in gold.
   Vinnie Rossi integrated for one. Schitt Bitfrost DAC another. Vista MM phonostage, Marantz CDP, PSB speakers and more.
   The big issue is knowing what tonality and harmonics are all about. meaning live instruments playing.
    If one knows what live music sounds like all it then takes is doing your homework. One must audition everything in their room with their existing system as a benchmark.
    Most do not have a dedicated space as required to achieve optimal sonics. Most are behind the eight ball from the start.
     If one has only a living room which serves as a family room as well needs NOT to get separate components and the like. Instead find an intergrated and fine speakers . Your done enjoy the music.
     Many complain about price. Should Ham be $6 a pound. No but it is. Thats life. No one is pulling your leg to buy. It personal choice. With that goes what is good for one is not good for another.
    Anyway listen to more live music and better train yourself to buy properly, not the hot component of the day.


charles
   
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Offline jimbones

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Re: You know what grinds my gears?
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2015, 07:57:46 PM »
agree with many of the equipment selections you made, very fine indeed.
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