AudioNervosa

Specialists => Audiologists => Topic started by: jessearias on October 05, 2017, 10:04:26 AM

Title: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: jessearias on October 05, 2017, 10:04:26 AM
I have heard about these over and over and read a few evaluations on them.  Some people say they are the best thing since sliced bread  :), others not so great.   :(
They seem to be of high quality and German made. Expensive as well. But worth it if they deliver as promised.  :shock:
What say you?
Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: rollo on October 05, 2017, 12:19:15 PM
 I have used them. Colored in tonality on the warmish side. The fuse of fuses IMHO are the Synergystic "Black" $150 ea. Audio Magic as well has a great fuse. They do make a substantial difference. Not a dealer of such.


charles
Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: _Scotty_ on October 05, 2017, 12:39:09 PM
Fuses are used in our gear to provide protection from electrical fire. My primary concern would be, do these fuses function in all ways identically to the stock fuses?
Scotty
Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: rollo on October 05, 2017, 12:48:12 PM
Fuses are used in our gear to provide protection from electrical fire. My primary concern would be, do these fuses function in all ways identically to the stock fuses?
Scotty

 Yes Sir they do and to my surprise actually make a difference in sonics. Believe me Scotty I had serious doubts about any improvement in sound. I was mistaken.


charles
Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: _Scotty_ on October 05, 2017, 02:19:46 PM
I wouldn't be surprised that the fuses made a change or an improvement sonically speaking, but as I said earlier I would want assurances that the fuse would function identically to the stock fuse.
 I have garnered an improvement from taking 1000 grit wet and dry sand paper and removing the nickel plating from the fuse body and putting dose of ProGold on it.
Scotty
Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: Triode Pete on October 05, 2017, 03:17:00 PM
I wouldn't be surprised that the fuses made a change or an improvement sonically speaking, but as I said earlier I would want assurances that the fuse would function identically to the stock fuse.
 I have garnered an improvement from taking 1000 grit wet and dry sand paper and removing the nickel plating from the fuse body and putting dose of ProGold on it.
Scotty

You could take it a set further... After removing the nickel plating, rub some "Cool Amp" silver plating powder on it, and then ProGold...

http://www.cool-amp.com/cool_amp.html (http://www.cool-amp.com/cool_amp.html)
Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: tmazz on October 05, 2017, 08:46:20 PM
And we have guys in the club who swear that fuses are directional.  So as a first step, just try flipping then around and see if one way sounds any better than the other.

Maybe it will, maybe it won't, but it doesn't cost you anything to find out.
Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: jessearias on October 07, 2017, 08:39:00 AM
In researching these fuses, there seems to be a lot of choices and materials. The Hi Fi silver fuses would seem to have the best conductivity and the liquid filled fuses from Audio Magic are rather interesting concept.  The fuses from Synergystic  are rather interesting as well. I guess the type of equipment (tube, SS, brand) you have would make a difference as well. I am sure some design fuses work better with certain styles of equipment than others. 

Then there is the debate of direction. I see  Synergystic notes that their fuses are directional. 

Where does a person start?

I guess one could try the Hi Fi fuses as they are the most reasonably priced and see what happens. :shock:

Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: P.I. on October 07, 2017, 06:30:36 PM
I wouldn't be surprised that the fuses made a change or an improvement sonically speaking, but as I said earlier I would want assurances that the fuse would function identically to the stock fuse.
 I have garnered an improvement from taking 1000 grit wet and dry sand paper and removing the nickel plating from the fuse body and putting dose of ProGold on it.
Scotty

You could take it a set further... After removing the nickel plating, rub some "Cool Amp" silver plating powder on it, and then ProGold...

http://www.cool-amp.com/cool_amp.html (http://www.cool-amp.com/cool_amp.html)
+1 on fuses.

It seems stupid that a fuse can make a difference at first, but consider the fact that we use uyp to 6-7ga cables to supply AC to the equipment and then it all gets crammed into a .025 - .032" piece of fusible wire to then work magic in our systems.  With that thought in mind, why wouldn't they?

I have been cryoing fuses since I built my first few power cables that were being cryoed.  Thing was, "why not do so?"

They do appear to be directional.  Pete and I have not discussed this before, but I've been sanding the nickel plating off to get to the brass cap.  Problem is that leaves the brass in the cap and holder.  If you have an absolute OCD urge to rectify this problem, silver plated beryllium copper fuse holder are available at Digikey and Mouser.  Here is a link:

[url]https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/littelfuse-inc/03590001Z/F10140-ND/554030/url]

I use Gena Labs or Pro Gold as an enhancer.

I can't swear I hear a difference but hell: I'll be 70 in a few months.
Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: _Scotty_ on October 07, 2017, 07:55:59 PM
Some of the problem is due to the fact that the fuse is a non-linear resistor whose resistance varies with temperature. A large problem if the power amp has speaker fuses in it. I bypassed mine with a large value foil and film cap across the speaker fuse holders. The same non-linear problem crops up in a class AB power amp with an AC fuse, thermal modulation of the fuse resistance due a varying AC current draw from the wall. I have also seen the stock fuse exhibit directionality
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR-43Cl48eJbtGIDGPIUzE7r1cTsjJRUNj7ms3-ZXZJOGFIQBwm)
SCREWY AIN'T IT.
Scotty
Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: jessearias on October 09, 2017, 07:11:09 AM
So here is the big question. I am willing to give this a go, but witch way to go? :shock:

I want to try some fuses in the Parasound equipment. 

The JC2BP is a pretty clean sounding, neutral SS pre amp.

The A21 is also a very clean, neutral sounding SS amp.

The overall sound from the Tritons is pretty balanced and neutral. Bass is strong. So no need to really tweak their sound.

So what fuse in your opinion would be the best on to try?  :?

I have a bottle of the Jena Labs contact fluid and always use that. It seems some of the fuses are already made from special metals or coatings to enhance conductivity but, will to try some of the other treatments.
Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: rollo on October 09, 2017, 08:29:18 AM
 Synergystic black. Graphene conductor just makes sense here. No temp limits, more conductive than silver just $150 ea. ouch. next choice for me is Audio Magic.


charles
Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: P.I. on October 09, 2017, 04:21:47 PM
So here is the big question. I am willing to give this a go, but witch way to go? :shock:

I want to try some fuses in the Parasound equipment. 

The JC2BP is a pretty clean sounding, neutral SS pre amp.

The A21 is also a very clean, neutral sounding SS amp.

The overall sound from the Tritons is pretty balanced and neutral. Bass is strong. So no need to really tweak their sound.

So what fuse in your opinion would be the best on to try?  :?

I have a bottle of the Jena Labs contact fluid and always use that. It seems some of the fuses are already made from special metals or coatings to enhance conductivity but, will to try some of the other treatments.
Jesse,

I would try dfusing the preamp first.  As always, cleaning up the highest gain devices first just make sense in a noise floor and microdynamics context.

I'll be very interested in your findings.  Party on!!!
Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: P.I. on October 12, 2017, 04:13:13 PM
I got to thinking about this more today and realized that I had not related my experiences with standard fuses years ago:

Use fuses with ceramic bodies whenever possible.

Wrap the body of the fuse with some type of tape as tightly as possible.  Teflon tape works and is easy.  my wrap of choice has been gauze that is saturated with Aleenes Tacky Glue.  Cleans up with water and stays flexible.  Build up the covering as thick as possible still allowing insertion and you are good to go.  Do I need to add that they must be very dry before using?

My experience with fuses has been, like with many other tweaks, subtle, but better.  Get enough of the subtle tweaks stacked up and all of a sudden the changes are a very good thing.

All of this is for tewaks with too much time on our hands and don't care what the "scientists" have to say.
Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: sleepyguy24 on October 13, 2017, 12:43:03 PM
To add onto what PI said with the ceramic fuses one tweak that was passed onto me was to clean the fuse ends really well. A little bit of elbow grease will go a long way. Use one of those silver polishes and then clean them with deoxit after. Do this as well as the fuse holder ends if possible.
Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: tmazz on October 13, 2017, 06:30:30 PM

All of this is for tewaks with too much time on our hands and don't care what the "scientists" have to say.

My answer to the scientists that say we are imagining the differences because they can't measure them is that perhaps they are just measuring the wrong things.
Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: rollo on October 16, 2017, 10:20:57 AM
  In my experience the best solution sound wise was removal of fuse. However taking a chance. so in the beginning it was ceramic fuses wrapped with silicone tape. polished and cleaned ends. Better.
Then came along exotic fuses. Hi Fi tuning first offering was not my cup of tea [warm ]. The hardest part was rationalizing $150 on a fuse.
Then I tried Audio Magic. Better than better. Wanting to try the Graphpene fuses. Again $150. Arghhhhh!!! I will eventually try them as I am a big fan of graphine as a conductor.
As of now all standard ceramic fuses with tape and polished ends using a graphene contact enhancer. IMHO as good as Hi Fi Tuning, Synergystic Blue to be tested.

charles
Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: jessearias on October 29, 2017, 09:02:59 AM
Ok now the question.

I know the electrical values (amperage, voltage) of the fuses I am going to replace. What I don't know is if they are fast blow or slow blow.

On solid state equipment, what would it be? :shock:  Slow blow or fast blow?  :roll:

I am going to bite the cheese and try the Synergistic Blue fuses.  :-P  Do we think that is a good match for the solid state Parasound equipment I have? Yes  :D, No  :(  Maybe something behind door number two?  :duh

I will let you know how they sound with the solid state equipment.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: tmazz on October 30, 2017, 06:56:36 AM
Keep in mind that slow Blow and fast Blow fuses are not interchangeable. If you put a fast blow in a circuit that was designed for a slow blow it will likely blow out on some startup inrush currents. And if you go the other way around you risk damaging the equipment if the fuse does not react fast enough.

The first place I would look is on the equipment itself. The rating of the fuse is usually printed on the case right by the fuse cap and if it requires a Slow Blow it will say that. If there is not indication on the case next place I would look would be the owners manual. (If you don't have one manuals for damn near everything are available online.) If you bought the unit new you can look at the fuse that is in it they usually have the ratings engraved in the end caps. But if you bought the unit second hand there is a chance that whomever owned it before you changed the fuse and you have now way of knowing that it was replace with the proper one, so that can be risky (who knows if they blew a fuse and all they had was one with a higher rating than required and put it in on a "temporary" basis, only to forget to replace it with the proper size... wouldn't be the first time.

FYI - Fast Blow uses most commonly look like a thin piece of wire going through the case, like this:


(http://www.newark.com/productimages/standard/en_US/4307699.jpg)

Whereas Slow blow fuses usually have a coiled wire and sometimes some other stuff inside the cartridge like this:


(http://www.mojotone.com/5-x-20mm-GMA-Marshall-Style-SB-3-15-AMP-thumb.jpg) or (https://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/pict/151350231065_4.jpg)

Of course this assumes you are looking at a fuse with a glass sleeve. If you have one with a ceramic sleeve you won't be able to see a thing.

The bottom line here it that it is very important to use a fuse that matches the electrical rating that was specified in the orioginal design and it is well worth the time to research what that spec is.

I hope this helps.
Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: jessearias on October 30, 2017, 08:04:27 AM
Fuse conundrum  :duh

OK, I am sure of the fuses in the one piece of equipment. The manufacturer states they must be slow blow. Problem solved! :drool:

On the Parasound equipment, not much help.   :(  Of course it is a ceramic fuse. The only thing I have to go by is what they spec on the case. T12A 250V  So, 12A 250V

Manufacturers literature states that if the fuse blows, call them. Wise advise, but not if your not having a problem and just want to change out the fuse.  :duh

Next step, call Parasound.

Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: uncola on November 02, 2017, 08:57:51 PM
the T stands for time-delay and it means slow blow..  the fast blow ones have a marking that starts with F.
I don't believe in fuses at all, but these fake AMR ceramic fuses with gold plated caps are only $3 so I do upgrade to them from stock fuses..  you can find them on ebay from vintage audio lab in taiwan
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMR-Audio-90-Silver-Alloy-Fuse-Tube-5x20mm-2A-Slow-Blow/253209889006?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Title: Re: Hi Fi tuning Fuses
Post by: rollo on November 07, 2017, 02:45:18 PM
the T stands for time-delay and it means slow blow..  the fast blow ones have a marking that starts with F.
I don't believe in fuses at all, but these fake AMR ceramic fuses with gold plated caps are only $3 so I do upgrade to them from stock fuses..  you can find them on ebay from vintage audio lab in taiwan
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMR-Audio-90-Silver-Alloy-Fuse-Tube-5x20mm-2A-Slow-Blow/253209889006?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Helpful info thanks.

charles